Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
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plaganegra Jeff
- Posts: 411
- Joined: 2 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Buffalo NY
Saw that Spawning Pit is getting a reprint in jumpstart - and has always been a great sac outlet that is semi-altar-esque.
Is this better than Altar of Dementia? I am not sure how to analyze the merit of both cards since the only overlap is the free infinite sac outlet itself.
Spawn tokens vs Mill
The tokens might be better?
How can the tokens be utilized? The mill has obvious synergy in filling our own GY and requires no mana investment.
Is this better than Altar of Dementia? I am not sure how to analyze the merit of both cards since the only overlap is the free infinite sac outlet itself.
Spawn tokens vs Mill
The tokens might be better?
How can the tokens be utilized? The mill has obvious synergy in filling our own GY and requires no mana investment.
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
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I was hesitant to try Tormod because he's a four-drop and my list is ridiculously top-heavy as it is. That's why I had to cut another high-MV card for him and Wilhelt had been consistently disappointing. In fairness, people seemed to target him quite unreasonably.
It must be said, Tormod cranks out Zombies pretty hard. Doubling up on Varina is pretty good, his spawn coming in untapped is awesome. With Gravecrawler it gets stupid fast; I had a game with Gravecrawler and Skullclamp plus Phyrexain Altar to sack tokens to fuel more shenanigans. Pubstomping at its finest!
It must be said, Tormod cranks out Zombies pretty hard. Doubling up on Varina is pretty good, his spawn coming in untapped is awesome. With Gravecrawler it gets stupid fast; I had a game with Gravecrawler and Skullclamp plus Phyrexain Altar to sack tokens to fuel more shenanigans. Pubstomping at its finest!
Some version maybe but almost all of our combos are bin dependent
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plaganegra Jeff
- Posts: 411
- Joined: 2 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Buffalo NY
I think here it can be used as a value play to replay a land and possibly another thing or two. In this way it is like a bad Eternal Witness that scales better with mana resources.
I think the downside is so anti-synergistic with much of what we do though I don't see the risk as worth it personally.
It's always a card back in my mind though.
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
It's hard to see a good fit for it; maybe with Emergence Zone or some other means of giving it Flash.
If you're playing combo, a staple that is usually frowned upon in Varina is actually well worth considering; Necropotence. Cast it, load up, sculpt a winning hand and wait for your next turn, hoping for the best!
Another card has recently piqued my attention; Mnemonic Betrayal. It's common in cEDH decks. There it's to play a haymaker out of someones graveyard - perhaps just after you've countered it! But here I think I'd like it also to prep for Living Death. Am I crazy?
I'd try something like Argivian Find if you really need that effect. For me I try to lean on Sevinne's Reclamation and avoid getting into spots where I need to recur >3 cmc things that aren't creatures.
It's part of the problem of running the big payoff enchantments/artifacts is that there are no zombies that recur them, so you're stuck playing purpose built effects.
as @Reya says Hall of Heliod's Generosity is probably the best option if you're heavy on that effect - it interacts really positively with Varina, all things considered (although less so for Kindred Discovery / Teferi's Ageless Insight stuff.
I've had the same issue; once Tombstone Stairwell, Rooftop Storm or Liliana, Untouched by Death are in the yard, they're gone for good. I've considered cards to bring them back, but I've just accepted their loss until now. Stairwell is mostly just for fun anyway, but Rooftop Storm and Lili are both really pretty useful in my game plan, so I miss them. Repair and Recharge is a new card that can recover one of those high-MV permanents.Reya wrote: ↑1 year agoEasier to recur spells with Repository Skaab and enchantments with Hall of Heliod's Generosity.
I've found Repositiory Skaab sufficient for spells. I've brought Living Death back multiple times per turn before. Everyone seems to enjoy that!
As said elsewhere, Sevinne's Reclamation is awesome for bringing back some of the most important things. The flashback synergizes well with Varina.
All that said, if you aren't looping Gravecrawler, maybe Yawgmoth's Will is fine. It's obviously only a turn, but the prejudice against it is twofold, I think.
One, people want to win when they cast Yawgmoth's Will. Our typical combo win-cons won't work under Yawg-Will.
Two, anything brought back with Yawg-Will can't be used that turn and then used again later. I'd hate for Living Death to be gone from the yard and spending a turn just to restock my hand is not what I want to do.
The question in my mind though, is why aren't you looping Gravecrawler?
While this is true, the potential to have your Gravecrawler exiled forever because of Yawgmoth's Will is really poor. It's really mana inefficient too since you have to cast all the stuff you want with it right now.
I'd be inclined to play more efficient recursion that doesn't open you up to blowouts.
Yawg's will is generally only good if you expect to be way ahead on mana somehow, through casting a bunch of mana rocks or rituals from your graveyard. So if you're on Culling Ritual and Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual perhaps?
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4010
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Of course there is. With that said Will just requires such a massive setup to get any reasonable value from that I think its too high risk for the reward it provides personally. Its a moot point for me as I don't own one and currently have no inclination to proxy one.
I think the Academy Ruins variants of land are our best bet personally. They play alright into our commander and aren't dead if we don't need the effect.
I'd be interested in hearing reports about Repair and Recharge though. Sounds cool but I have the feeling it'll end up being just a bit too pricey.
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plaganegra Jeff
- Posts: 411
- Joined: 2 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Buffalo NY
I think the only things really worth trying to get back (from a deckbuilding standpoint) are the altars, key creatures, removal spells, and game winning sorceries. Luckily we have all the tools to get those things back without too much trouble or bending the Varina deck too far down a rabbit hole.
Of the things you could target to recur, the only stuff you cannot get back with the cards most commonly found in many builds, are non-creature permanents that are over 3cmc.
You could consider tutors as redundancy in finding those answers or recursion options instead of finding more recursion spells also.
Of the things you could target to recur, the only stuff you cannot get back with the cards most commonly found in many builds, are non-creature permanents that are over 3cmc.
You could consider tutors as redundancy in finding those answers or recursion options instead of finding more recursion spells also.
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
I don't know, $0.13 fits my budget - barely!toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoI'd be interested in hearing reports about Repair and Recharge though. Sounds cool but I have the feeling it'll end up being just a bit too pricey.
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4010
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Let us know how it plays out if you do end up finding a slot for it.pzbw7z wrote: ↑1 year agoI don't know, $0.13 fits my budget - barely!toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoI'd be interested in hearing reports about Repair and Recharge though. Sounds cool but I have the feeling it'll end up being just a bit too pricey.
I will. The ability to also put Lili into play as well as the A&E cards intrigues me but the 5-MV is off-putting.toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoLet us know how it plays out if you do end up finding a slot for it.pzbw7z wrote: ↑1 year agoI don't know, $0.13 fits my budget - barely!toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoI'd be interested in hearing reports about Repair and Recharge though. Sounds cool but I have the feeling it'll end up being just a bit too pricey.
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4010
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
My thoughts exactly. The powerstone isn't nothing, but like, its also barely something.pzbw7z wrote: ↑1 year agoI will. The ability to also put Lili into play as well as the A&E cards intrigues me but the 5-MV is off-putting.toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoLet us know how it plays out if you do end up finding a slot for it.
Obzedat's Aid already exists, can get a creature or land back if that's what you need, and is easier to cast being instead of .pzbw7z wrote: ↑1 year agoI will. The ability to also put Lili into play as well as the A&E cards intrigues me but the 5-MV is off-putting.toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoLet us know how it plays out if you do end up finding a slot for it.
I ran it for quite a while. Let me pitch things like Rooftop Storm early, then get them back later.
Sefris, Varina, Korvold Lands Ho!, Queen Marchesa, Aikido/Goad, Kadena, Tuvasa, Tymna & Tevesh Cleric Tribal, Ghired,
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
Prosper, Captain N'ghatrod, Sméagol, Frodo & Sam, Henzie, Sauron, the Dark Lord, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, Galadriel of Lothlorien
It seems better - the powerstone isn't of great interest, but it is $0.10 more!yeti1069 wrote: ↑1 year agoObzedat's Aid already exists, can get a creature or land back if that's what you need, and is easier to cast being instead of .pzbw7z wrote: ↑1 year agoI will. The ability to also put Lili into play as well as the A&E cards intrigues me but the 5-MV is off-putting.toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year ago
Let us know how it plays out if you do end up finding a slot for it.
I ran it for quite a while. Let me pitch things like Rooftop Storm early, then get them back later.
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plaganegra Jeff
- Posts: 411
- Joined: 2 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Buffalo NY
Gasp.
Frazetta Zombie is beautiful.
New SL Alert.
Zombies ate my brains.
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
My Varina Decklist
Braids cEDH Decklist
Also: Yawgmoth, Tinybones, Blim, Krenko, Kaalia, Chatterfang, Kodama-East, Kozilek, Morophon, U-Braids, Ashcoat, Preston, Sauron.
MTG since 2003
Care to share your updated list? Also if you haven't tried an online deck organizer they're totally worth it (free). I use Archidekt, but I like what I've seen from Moxfield quite a bit. Tapped Out still seems to have the most users commenting, but Moxfield is getting there. Users don't comment much at all on Archidekt from what I've seen.
Arcades, the Strategist, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Varina, Lich Queen, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Sidar Jabari of Zhalfir
Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Ratadrabik of Urborg, Ranar the Ever-Watchful, Lathril, Blade of the Elves
Ayara, First of Locthwain, Giada, Font of Hope,The Gaffer
Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Ratadrabik of Urborg, Ranar the Ever-Watchful, Lathril, Blade of the Elves
Ayara, First of Locthwain, Giada, Font of Hope,The Gaffer
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4010
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
To me, it actually feels really good. I don't at all care for the signets, and most of the mana positive rocks we don't really need, and freeing up slots for actual meaningful cards makes it feel more like an actual 100 card deck if that makes sense.
Always keen to see a list, please do share, RC!ChocoDude wrote: ↑1 year agoCare to share your updated list? Also if you haven't tried an online deck organizer they're totally worth it (free). I use Archidekt, but I like what I've seen from Moxfield quite a bit. Tapped Out still seems to have the most users commenting, but Moxfield is getting there. Users don't comment much at all on Archidekt from what I've seen.
For myself Moxfield has my favorite UI. I will say there's very little discourse on my lists, but that's beside the point in my purposes for the site, it's purely there for curation for me. And at that, it's very good. You don't get the same level of discourse as an old school forum like nexus, but its very good at collating adds, removes, considerations and swap outs, and it'll display however you like it to. The real pro of Moxfield is the goldfish option though. You get an interface to see hands for mulligan considerations and can play through as a solitaire game. It's very well done (and as an aside if I ever have the time to play online with friends this would be my chosen method - clean and easy).
Toc: I'm confused by your last line. Can you play online with others via Moxfield?
Arcades, the Strategist, Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Varina, Lich Queen, Isshin, Two Heavens as One, Sidar Jabari of Zhalfir
Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Ratadrabik of Urborg, Ranar the Ever-Watchful, Lathril, Blade of the Elves
Ayara, First of Locthwain, Giada, Font of Hope,The Gaffer
Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Ratadrabik of Urborg, Ranar the Ever-Watchful, Lathril, Blade of the Elves
Ayara, First of Locthwain, Giada, Font of Hope,The Gaffer