Teysa: Sacrificing Tokens for Fun and Profit

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

demonicpic wrote:
2 years ago
I see... well, I'd hate to make changes to your deck before I got in a few laps with it. I wouldn't know what to take out for the cards you've listed. I'll keep checking to see if you've updated things and in the mean time I'll order the cards I need to build your original list. I really appreciate your primer, thank you for making it. I would love to see a no-budget list if you ever have the time and interest in creating such a thing!
Ha, I don't want to make changes to my deck without some testing either! I actually played a few games with it a few weeks ago in a different meta, and it definitely functioned differently as a result - more grave hate meant my recursion was weaker, but there were also fewer board wipes, which made my engine creatures stronger. I also saw several Dauthi Voidwalkers running around, which sort of makes me want to increase the amount of spot removal.

If I were in your position and building the deck for the first time, I'd probably start with the budget decklist, then tune it based on my meta and preferences. There are some pretty safe staples to upgrade into (ex: Smothering Tithe, Demonic Tutor, Stoneforge Mystic, Bitterblossom), and also some safe combo enablers to include if you want to lean in that direction (ex: Darkest Hour, Entomb, Buried Alive), but a lot of the slots are definitely personal preference.

No-budget list is something I've contemplated putting together for a while - there are a lot of upgrades I'd like to run if they were more affordable. I'll see what I can do.

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Post by demonicpic » 2 years ago

This is great advice, thank you! I'll see what I put together and will post here for advice. I had started off with an EDH list with the other Teysa, but when I saw yours I realized it was so much better! So many more combos! I spent the day looking around the internet for lists with your Teysa. I saw that there are even cEDH lists but that's not really what I'm looking for. I like that your deck keeps the spirit of Teysa, it's not just the same good stuff pile you see in every cEDH deck. I'll look forward to seeing what you put together for your no budget brew, I'm not a brewer myself, but I can see you've got an eye for quality! Thank you!

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

demonicpic wrote:
2 years ago
This is great advice, thank you! I'll see what I put together and will post here for advice. I had started off with an EDH list with the other Teysa, but when I saw yours I realized it was so much better! So many more combos! I spent the day looking around the internet for lists with your Teysa. I saw that there are even cEDH lists but that's not really what I'm looking for. I like that your deck keeps the spirit of Teysa, it's not just the same good stuff pile you see in every cEDH deck. I'll look forward to seeing what you put together for your no budget brew, I'm not a brewer myself, but I can see you've got an eye for quality! Thank you!
Thanks, glad you like the decklist! Feel free to share your own when you put it together.

I actually do like Teysa 3.0 a lot - she seems very solid for a more midrange-ish aristocrats build, opposed to this deck's heavier combo focus. I won't say that Teysa 1.0 is necessarily better or worse than 3.0, just that they pull in different directions. (still, both are more interesting than 2.0)

With regards to cEDH... yeah, unfortunately, an aristocrats strategy requires a lot of deck slots for sacrifice outlets / token producers / Blood Artist effects, which means you don't have many deck slots left for the fast mana / tutors / cheap interaction you usually want for a cEDH deck. It may be possible to tune this deck to play against cEDH decks, but I suspect it would require some pretty significant changes.

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Post by yeti1069 » 2 years ago

I "upgraded" my Teysa 1.0 deck to 3.0 a while back, and it ended up not being an improvement. Teysa 3.0 makes the death trigger shenanigans better, and has a decent impact on a token swarm, but it requires a pretty significant board state to do anything really, whereas OG Teysa felt like it had more of a presence with less setup. Even just as wrath recovery. Plus, she can take some of the junk tokens you have lying around, and turn them into spot removal. Too often with the Deatharmonicon I found no good time to play Teysa, or without a way for her to be meaningful in situations where the OG would have really shined. Made some edits to the deck to try and play into Teysa 3.0 some more, but ended up taking it apart. Now, my Orzhov deck is Tymna/Tevesh Szat Cleric/human tribal (Teysa 1.0 is still in there, doing her thing, but I kinda miss the token silliness and spot removal engine).

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Put together a rough draft of a no-budget decklist. I haven't actually tested it, so take it with a grain of salt.

Non-Budget Teysa
Approximate Total Cost:

There are definitely a lot of other cards I'd like to include, but couldn't quite find the space for. Definitely worth consideration, but would need to make some tough cuts. If I were building the deck from scratch, there are a few other card packages I'd be interested in slotting in - specifically, a larger reanimation package (with stuff like Entomb and Priest of Fell Rites, plus some reanimation targets) and an expanded small creature package to support Return to the Ranks. Possibly also a four horsemen-style package with Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith to support those recursion shenanigans. I'd also love to slot in Songs of the Damned. However, all of these would require multiple deck slots, so would require some actual testing to figure out where to fit them in.

There are also some deck slots that I suspect are suboptimal, but would need testing to figure out what the best options are:

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Midnight Hunt previews out, and there are a lot of sweet cards in it. Innistrad sets tend to have a lot of graveyard-friendly cards and mechanics, and this time is no exception.

Decayed is a downside mechanic that works very well with this deck. You can't block with decayed creatures, and they are sacrificed after they attack.... but if you're planning to sacrifice the token (and get a 1/1 spirit token from Teysa), that downside is much more negligible. On the flip side, the cards that generate decayed tokens tend to be extremely efficient.

Disturb is mildly interesting - it's sort of like flashback for creatures. After a creature dies the first time, you can recur it from your graveyard before losing it forever. Still, I don't think the creatures with the ability are that powerful in EDH.

Day / night doesn't have any native synergy with this deck, and is fairly difficult to evaluate without some experimentation. I think it will function best in decks that have lots of instants, since they can flip it to night with minimal cost. Flipping back to day by casting two spells is something I expect most decks to be able to do.

Anyway, cards....
White
  • Intrepid Adversary looks reasonable for a go-wide aggressive deck, but excites me less here.
  • Sigardian Savior looks quite reasonable if you're doing a Return to the Ranks build. It's also just good value, assuming you have things to recur.
  • Fateful Absence is a respectable removal spell.
  • Sigarda's Splendor is interesting if you have sufficient lifegain, but I think it's a bit too conditional outside dedicated lifegain decks - most of the time, it will probably just encourage your opponents to attack you.
  • Adeline, Resplendent Cathar looks excellent - she produces a ton of ton of tokens (and if they're all going to die, you can just sacrifice them to Teysa).
  • Vanquish the Horde looks like it may be the best mono-white board wipe in the format. Clearing the board for only two mana and still having plenty of mana for a followup play seems like a strong tempo move.
  • Sunset Revelry is an interesting twist on Timely Reinforcements - making two tokens and cantripping seems quite efficient.
  • Gavony Dawnguard is mildly interesting as a free draw engine. May be worth testing, but it really depends both on how consistent it is to hit and how often day / night flips. I suspect it is a bit too conditional for this deck.
  • Lunarch Veteran is mildly interesting as a Soul Warden variant that can be recurred. It only triggers off your own creatures though, which makes it a much weaker source of lifegain.
  • Cathar Commando is mildly interesting as a Disenchant effect on a creature.
Black Gold and Colorless
  • Liesa, Forgotten Archangel, like Gisa, Glorious Resurrector, looks solid both in and against an aristocrats strategy - sacrifice creature for value, then recur them, while also shutting down death triggers. She also works as soft protection from board wipes. I think she may be a bit slow for this deck, but worth testing.
  • Rite of Oblivion is a flexible removal spell with flashback. Sorcery speed and requiring a sacrifice means there is a very high cost to it, but dealing with two problems is a very significant upside.
  • The Celestus is... interesting. It's somewhat outclassed by Bonder's Ornament in a vacuum, but if day and night are naturally flipping it can represent a lot of free looting.
Overall, I think Adeline, The Meathook Massacre, and Morbid Opportunist are the cards that I'm most excited about for this deck, but there are a ton of cards worth consideration. There are solid options for new removal spells (Vanquish the Horde, Rite of Oblivion) and a bunch of interesting token producers (Jadar, Ghoulish Procession). I'll also call out Gisa and Liesa, both of which would need some testing to evaluate... and may also need me to tweak my decklist to include more spot removal if they show up frequently enough.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

A few minor changes, mostly with the intent of testing some cards out - I'm not convinced any of these swaps are going to stick, but I figure I might as well do the testing sooner rather than later. I'm probably going to be acquiring a bunch of cards for my decks sometime in the near future, so I'm going to be busy with those for a while. Eldraine was the last time I got new cards, so I have a very large backlog to work through.

Cuts:
  • Dusk // Dawn - I've had somewhat mixed results with it. I like the front half as an asymmetric board wipe, but it's really rare for me to cast Dawn due to how expensive it is. It compares pretty poorly to Living Death reanimating the cards outright.
  • Sidisi, Undead Vizier - may come back (tutors are good), but five mana is a little slow.
  • Boreas Charger - I haven't noticed myself having issues with land drops recently, but may come back if that changes.
I'll note that Bolas's Citadel is currently on the chopping block, but I want to test it a bit more - it's an incredibly powerful card, but I've had pretty mixed results with it due to how much hate it attracts.

Adds:
  • Ayara, First of Locthwain - I've been meaning to test Ayara for ages. May end up being too slow though - triple black is a steep requirement, as is needing to tap.
  • Anointed Procession - I actually cut it from the deck ages ago, but I feel like trying it out again from an ideological perspective - this should be a deck that it works well in, and if it isn't, then that may be a sign I should tweak things to support it better.
  • Generous Gift - with the printing of Liesa, Forgotten Archangel and Gisa, Glorious Resurrector, I feel like I want to preemptively add a little extra spot removal. This would be Despark.... if not for the existence of Dauthi Voidwalker, the other reason I want more spot removal.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

As a brief followup, there are also some interesting cards in the Midnight Hunt commander decks.
  • Crowded Crypt reminds me of Cursed Mirror and Midnight Clock, two of my favorite mana rocks from recent times. Cashing it in later in the game for a zombie horde sounds pretty sweet.
  • Ghouls' Night Out is a very efficient reanimation spell, even if the reanimated creatures have decayed. Five mana for four bodies (which are even black for Teysa) is an excellent rate.
  • Curse of the Restless Dead looks like a solid token producer - you can throw it on yourself for 'landfall: make a zombie', or you can throw it on the green / ramp player at the table. I'm not sure how it compares to Blight Mound or other triggered token-producing enchantments though.
  • Prowling Geistcatcher looks fantastic. I've wanted to test out Promise of Tomorrow, but its timing restriction has always looked a little clunky to me. Getting the return ability as a leaves-the-battlefield effect is a massive improvement, as is it showing up on a creature. It also acts as a redundant Fiend Hunter in Angel of Glory's Rise loops, which is pretty big. It does require you to actually sacrifice the creatures (instead of counting for any death), but that should be manageable.
  • Moorland Rescuer is interesting. We don't have many ways to pump it, and exiling itself is a significant limitation, but it does offer a better Reveillark trigger on death - you can return any number of 0-power creatures, and split things up to also return multiple 1-power creatures.
  • Wall of Mourning is a cute spin on Wall of Omens. Triggering coven doesn't seem difficult - you could have it off Wall, Teysa, and a 1/1 token. The card does look a little slow though.
Of these, Prowling Geistcatcher looks like a snap include, and I think Ghouls' Night Out is efficient enough to likely also be worth including. Curse of Restless Dead and Crowded Crypt may also be worth testing.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Was able to test out a few of my changes this weekend. My first experience with Ayara, First of Locthwain was interesting - I put her in the deck primarily as a card draw / sacrifice engine, but she ended up being a bit too slow to ever actually activate - it was rare for me to untap with her. On the flip side, I sort of discounted her drain ability and discounted the fact that almost all the creatures (and most of the tokens) in this deck are black, so her reverse Zulaport Cutthroat ability actually added up pretty quickly. (This was why it was rare for her to live - she attracted a bit too much negative attention). So, I would consider her pretty weak as a sac outlet / draw engine, but if you treat her as a drain engine, she looks a lot better.

Anointed Procession still felt as clunky as I remember it. It's usually a bit win-more - if I'm generating tokens consistently, that usually means I already have an engine online. Still, will keep trying it out. As mentioned, I'm expecting to get a bunch of new things to test in the future, including a bunch of new token producers.

Speaking more broadly, I think one of my goals for the deck at the moment is to improve its tempo - I've added a lot of card draw over the years, and I feel like the deck is currently constrained by mana more often than it is constrained by cards. There are some high-tempo plays available - Black Market and Pitiless Plunderer can both generate a lot of mana, and mass reanimation effects are always great - but Orzhov isn't exactly known for its access to easy ramp.

On that note, a few swaps, featuring some new cards from Midnight Hunt:
  • Dreadhorde InvasionJadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia - testing Jadar out. I was initially a bit low on him, then I realized he's a Bitterblossom that both gives you the token immediately, and has a sacrifice outlet attached (just attack with the token). Obviously worse at blocking, but seems worth testing. Being a creature instead of an enchantment is a bit of mixed bag - more likely to die to a random boardwipe, but also provides an extra body in a pinch.
  • Thawing GlaciersSwamp - when I first added Thawing Glaciers, I did so because I found myself often missing land drops. These days, I have so much card draw that missing land drops is significantly less common. Critically, even if I fetch it early with Expedition Map, it's unlikely for me to activate it more than twice, making it a worse Orzhov Basilica. (My Samut, Voice of Dissent deck can also abuse it a lot better with various land untappers, which doesn't hurt)
  • Expedition MapDowsing Dagger // Lost Vale - with the primary target cut, I have less incentive to run Map. Obviously will come back if I ever acquire a copy of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers, but until then it's on the bench. On the other hand, I've noticed myself wanting to get to 9+ mana for tempo reasons (namely, to be able to deploy 3x 3-drops), and Dowsing Dagger is a great way to do so. I think I have enough random creatures (often 1/1 flying spirit tokens) to connect consistently enough.
  • Aven MindcensorGrand Abolisher - swapping out a tech card based on my meta. It feels like my current meta is a bit lighter on combo and a bit heavier on countermagic, so swapping these out. Or, alternatively, I may just be overcompensating for a few memorable games where my plans were foiled. Either way, it has felt difficult to find an opportunity to get Mindcensor in play - this deck rarely wants to hold open lots of mana.
  • Decree of PainCathar Commando - I love Decree of Pain, but, as mentioned, I've felt good on card draw recently. On the flip side, I've seen more Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Voids than I'm comfortable with, so adding a bit more interaction for them. My build is currently tuned more for the one-shot effects like Relic of Progenitus and Bojuka Bog that were common in my old meta, and the replacement effects I'm seeing in my current meta are pretty backbreaking. Hopefully Gisa, Glorious Resurrector and Liesa, Forgotten Archangel won't be too common.....
I'm planning some bigger changes sometime in the next few weeks once my most recent order of new stuff arrives, but should be able to give these changes a few spins before then. The addition of several more 2-drops makes me slightly tempted to try out Return to the Ranks, but that will probably have to wait for another day.

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Post by Muffins1001 » 2 years ago

Man I just found this and this primer has been a huge help (I currently run krav and regna) I have been trying to dial up the power for it. I wanted ask does re assembly skeleton performs well for you?

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Muffins1001 wrote:
2 years ago
Man I just found this and this primer has been a huge help (I currently run krav and regna) I have been trying to dial up the power for it. I wanted ask does re assembly skeleton performs well for you?
Glad to help!

Reassembling Skeleton is fine, IMO. It's not an amazing card, but I'm usually happy to have access to it. I think that most aristocrats decks want at least one self-recursive creature, and Reassembling Skeleton is one of the better options available. 1B to create a body (plus a spirit, assuming Teysa is out) is a pretty efficient rate, and it's much easier to use than similar cards like Dread Wanderer and Bloodsoaked Champion. As mentioned in my last post, I would like to improve this deck's tempo a bit, but I think Reassembling Skeleton is still efficient enough to be worth running.

I'll call out its Pitiless Plunderer (and Phyrexian Altar) as a card that works very well with it - with Teysa out, you can get infinite death triggers. It's also not a bad third card to fetch with Buried Alive, and it's a solid draw engine alongside Skullclamp and stuff like Grim Haruspex.

If you're running Krav, the Unredeemed as a sac outlet / draw engine, then you may be a little more constrained on mana, which means that Reassembling Skeleton may be more mana-intensive than you would like. Still, I'd recommend at least testing it out. I will note that it is generally outclassed by Nether Traitor, but I think it's fine to run both. Bloodghast is also an upgrade over the Skeleton (especially if you're running a bunch of fetchlands), even if it doesn't have any combo potential.

....now I'm slightly annoyed that I forgot about Nether Traitor's reprint - if I had remembered it, then it would have been included in my most recent order of singles. Time to see if I can still update that order....

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Post by Muffins1001 » 2 years ago

Well I am in luck as I have a spare nether traitor and bloodghast that I could put in the deck to try out. Since my commanders make tokens so easily I have been thinking I need to lean more into the token creation sub theme but other than bitter blossom and crested summare I was unsure what to run

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Muffins1001 wrote:
2 years ago
Well I am in luck as I have a spare nether traitor and bloodghast that I could put in the deck to try out. Since my commanders make tokens so easily I have been thinking I need to lean more into the token creation sub theme but other than bitter blossom and crested summare I was unsure what to run
Ha, lovely.

Yeah, without testing, it's hard to know what sort of token production you would want, or if you need more at all. I'm running Teysa in the command zone, so I'm massively incentivized to run black creatures - double-dipping on sacrifice effects with spirit tokens is really nice. On the other hand, with Krav + Regna in the command zone, you'll probably want different token producers. Potential options:

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Post by Muffins1001 » 2 years ago

https://www.archidekt.com/decks/408630#Orzhov_Lovers

Here is the current deck list I am running there are few cards that have been underperforming as of late that will prob get dropped. So far heliod has not been to great when I get him

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Hmmmmm..... yeah, Heliod definitely looks on the weak side in your deck - he's good with Walking Ballista, but without combo potential he's just a fancy Ajani's Pridemate.

Beyond that, hard for me to make recommendations without having actually played the deck myself. Thalisse, Reverent Medium looks a bit like a win-more card - you don't have much token production other than Regna in the command zone, and Regna already produces plenty of tokens. Mother of Runes also looks a little suspicious, although I definitely understand the desire to protect your commanders.

Speaking more broadly, I would inquire as to whether your goal is to be a lifegain deck with an aristocrats subtheme (built primarily around Regna), or an aristocrats deck with a lifegain subtheme (build primarily around Krav) - both pull in different directions, and it can be difficult to find enough card slots to support both. Looking at your current deck, it appears that you're leaning towards the former, with lots of lifegain and stuff like Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose and Aetherflux Reservoir. It may be worth leaning into that even more, with cards like Exquisite Blood / Sanguine Bond and Angel of Destiny.

Alternatively, you could pull back from the lifegain a bit and lean into the aristocrats side, cutting some of your lifegain for direct token production and cheap recursive bodies like Bloodghast to fuel Krav. In an ideal world, you would always have both of your commanders available, so any lifegain you have also counts as token production... but in practice, I imagine it's tricky to consistently have both of your commanders out at the same time (especially since they're on the expensive side).

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Post by Muffins1001 » 2 years ago

Yeah Heliod without the combo has been ok. I get to make one guy big but that's about as much as he's done. Thalisse does feel win some times for sure. I put her in for testing and it was cute the one time I got her out with smothering tithe (made so many tokens) but honestly have not gotten to play with her very much since I put her in. Mom was in there cause it was good no real reason for it to be in there.

Honestly I am not sure what direction the deck is currently in but it does feel a bit disjointed currently. I do think your right the deck should focus on one partner and use the other for back up back. What would an aristocrats sub theme look like? I originally added in a lot of them cause there where a few games where I had tons of tokens and nothing to do with them/no way to push in dmg

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Muffins1001 wrote:
2 years ago
What would an aristocrats sub theme look like?
At its core, I would say that an aristocrats strategy consists of three components: a way to generate creatures (usually tokens), a way to sacrifice those creatures, and a payoff for having creatures die. See the 'building an engine' section. In your case, Krav is capable of functioning as a sac outlet and payoff, which means that you can focus more on having enough creatures to sacrifice (although having extra payoffs definitely doesn't hurt). Regna helps out there, and I would still recommend having ways to trigger her, but I would avoid running too many cards that require her to be out to function.

Potential cuts: Potential adds: The other thing I would recommend would be to track what sort of issues you encounter with the deck - if the same problem comes up in a large percentage of games, adjust your deck to address that weakness. If you find yourself not having enough creatures, you can run more token production. Alternatively, if you're running out of cards, you can add more draw.

Another potential issue is not having a way to close out the game - as you mentioned, it's possible to have a bunch of tokens and no payoff. Winning with only a single Blood Artist or Zulaport Cutthroat effect is usually pretty difficult due to how much life you have to chew through. There are cards that can make that line possible (ex: Deploy to the Front, Increasing Devotion, Tombstone Stairwell), but 40+ life is still a lot to deal with. As a result, my own deck usually leans on combo and mass reanimation to close out games. The key thing that ties those finishers together is having a ton of ways to turn dead creatures into card draw - if I can use Dark Prophecy to draw 10+ extra cards, that will usually be enough to either dig myself to a combo win, or it will put enough creatures in my graveyard to win off a mass reanimation spell.

That said, there are other win conditions you can aim for - Debt to the Deathless / Torment of Hailfire / Exsanguinate (fueled by Ashnod's Altar or Pitiless Plunderer) is one option, or you could use something like Cathars' Crusade or Jazal Goldmane to make a token army into a real threat. Locking down the board with a Grave Pact effect and attacking your opponents can also work sometimes.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Following up on my last update, I now have all the cards I ordered from MID, plus a bunch of other stuff from my backlog. As anticipated, there were more cards than I could actually find slots for, so I'm currently keeping a keen eye out for cards to cut. There are a few I'm already sort of leaning towards removing, but I want to test them out a bit more first - a lot of those cards tend to be either countered or killed immediately, which makes them more difficult to evaluate.

Changes: Cards that I'm currently thinking about: If anyone has experience playing with any of the cards on the watchlist / waitlist / maybeboard, feel free to share! I don't have the bandwidth to test everything myself, and would love some anecdotes in case I'm missing some hidden gems.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Got in a few games with the new changes, during which I focused on testing the new cards (and things on my watchlist) to try to find some slots for other new cards. Might have another small update after this, but I think the bulk of my testing is currently done.... even if I do still have more cards I want to squeeze in. >.>

Cuts:
  • Teysa Karlov - a painful cut, since I love the card. Unfortunately, Teysa 3.0 felt too win-more. She is certainly a powerful effect when active, but I don't actually have that many cards with death triggers in the deck, which makes it unlikely for her to be multiplying more than one of those effects. As a result, I believe it would be more consistent to just run more death triggers instead.
  • Ethereal Absolution - another card I like, but it doesn't have much synergy with the deck. I do like what it does, and enabling an actual aggressive plan is certainly nice (since 1/1s aren't really relevant in combat), but that usually isn't what the deck is about.
  • Cathar Commando - cool card, but a little low-impact. I do appreciate that it comes on a creature, but Heliod's Intervention feels like a better version of this effect.
  • Grand Abolisher - of all the cards in my list, Grand Abolisher is probably the one that cycles in and out the most. It will probably return the next time I get shut down by a countermagic-heavy deck, but until then, it's back to my sideboard.
  • Reassembling Skeleton - might come back, but it has felt a bit mana-intensive. Trying out some different options for token / body production in the meantime.
  • Crowded Crypt - I've generally felt alright on mana, so tentatively shaving a mana rock.
  • Syr Konrad, the Grim - with the addition of Bastion of Remembrance, I feel like my drain plan has become a bit more consistent. Syr Konrad is a very strong win condition though, so may return someday.
  • Bolas's Citadel - extremely powerful card, but it also draws an absurd amount of attention, and I prefer to keep a low profile. I also don't think this is the best deck for it - I've shaved some of my lifegain and I don't have any topdeck manipulation, so it has felt rare for it to dig me more than 3-4 cards deeper.
Adds:
  • Priest of Fell Rites - had a game where I cast Buried Alive and realized that if I added Priest to the deck, that would mean I can directly Entomb a reanimation spell with it, which is.... extremely powerful. Might actually result in Buried Alive getting cut, since I'm not a fan of 1-card combos, but it does still require a few more cards.
  • Blot Out the Sky - testing. Produces a bunch of tokens and acts as a Fracturing Gust, which seems strong. Can be awkward if I have a bunch of my own artifacts / enchantments, but flexibility is good.
  • Court of Grace - testing. I've been wanting more token production for the deck, and stapling on some card draw in the form of monarch seems like it could be nice. It also self-enables by producing evasive tokens to reclaim the crown. (obligatory 'hoping Bitterblossom' becomes more affordable shoutout)
  • Blessed Sanctuary - testing. Again, I want to try having some more token production. May be weaker than Open the Graves, but I like the incidental burn protection - making my board immune to Blasphemous Act seems sweet if it ever comes up.
  • Ghoulish Procession - more token production to test. May be a bit too clunky, but triggering off my opponents' creatures seems sweet.
  • Yahenni, Undying Partisan - I've felt myself really wanting another sac outlet recently, so adding Yahenni back in.
  • Liliana, Heretical Healer // Liliana, Defiant Necromancer - testing. Liliana brings along a token and can provide a bit of reanimation, which makes her a nice value creature. Her discard ability is a bit more niche, but the ultimate is obviously strong if I ever get there.
  • Ghouls' Night Out - more things to test. Four bodies for five mana seems like a good deal, even if they are decayed. I previously cut Sepulchral Primordial from the deck, but reducing the cost and making all the creatures black for Teysa are both relevant upsides.
Still can't find space: Adeline, Resplendent Cathar, Rise of the Dread Marn, Liliana's Standard Bearer

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Crimson Vow spoilers out, and I still haven't finished updating my deck from the last batch of cards. So much to test, so little time.... Anyway, like Midnight Hunt, this is a set on Innistrad, which tends to have lots of sacrifice and graveyard-friendly mechanics.

White
  • Cemetery Protector is mildly interesting as grave hate // token production. It is a bit conditional (this deck can trigger creatures and lands consistently, but not other card types), but seems reasonable.
  • Savior of Ollenbock looks sweet. You do need to have another creature to attack with, but even one trigger gives you a free reanimation spell (or Fiend Hunter trigger). Definitely some hoops to jump through though.
  • Welcoming Vampire looks amazing. I've been contemplating cutting Mentor of the Meek for a while - it tends to be a bit more mana-intensive than I would like, especially in the early game. Drawing cards for free is a massive upgrade, even if it is only once per turn - it's rare to draw 2+ cards per turn off Mentor, and Welcoming Vampire works great with generating tokens on opponents' turns with stuff like Ophiomancer.
  • Hopeful Initiate is mildly interesting - this deck doesn't really have the +1/+1 counters to support it, but it's a strong effect if you can use it repeatedly.
  • Wedding Announcement is a mildly interesting token producer // card draw spell. Not sure how consistently this deck attacks with 2+ creatures, but it does self-enable.
  • By Invitation Only looks like a fantastic asymmetric board wipe, assuming you have plenty of expendable tokens lying around.
Black
  • Path of Peril is mildly interesting as a flexible board wipe. I suspect that only killing cheap creatures will make it better against this deck than in it, but flexibility is good.
  • Demonic Bargain is mildly interesting as a reasonably-priced tutor, but the odds of exiling a combo piece make me a bit hesitant to actually run it.
  • Voldaren Bloodcaster is mildly interesting as a token producer / death trigger payoff. I think it takes a bit too much to flip though, and I'm not convinced this deck has a lot of use for blood tokens - I'm not a big fan of rummaging, and this deck can be constrained on mana.
  • Fell Stinger looks quite solid - I've tested Vulturous Aven in the past, and shaving a mana off it (plus having a more relevant body) may push it back into the deck.
Gold / Colorless / Lands
  • Kaya, Geist Hunter has Anointed Procession as a (-2), which is somewhat interesting. This deck can't really take advantage of her (+1) though.
  • Edgar, Charmed Groom has potential - the vampire synergy doesn't really matter for this deck, but sacrificing him to get a token producer for a few turns seems reasonable, after which Edgar returns for more work.
  • Dollhouse of Horrors is somewhat interesting as a token producer. I suspect it costs a bit too much to get going, but if you have some self-mill to keep it active, it can represent a lot of value.
  • Investigator's Journal can be interesting if you can get a lot of suspect counters on it via tokens. I think it's weaker than the draw options currently in the deck though.
  • Shattered Sanctum is a fantastic new fixing land - I think the downside of entering tapped the first two turns is pretty minor in EDH.
Commander Cards
  • Wedding Ring has potential as a draw engine, but I'm not a big fan of kingmaker effects. I also suspect this deck draws too many cards (particularly at sorcery speed) for it to be truly asymmetric.
  • Doom Weaver is a little expensive, but you can soulbond it with something expendable to build a janky Harvester of Souls. It doesn't care if its partner is a token, which is quite nice.
Of the new cards, I would say that Welcoming Vampire is a snap include, and By Invitation Only also seems quite solid. I'd also like to test out Fell Stinger. Overall, I think this set is a little lighter on cards for this deck than Midnight Hunt - it's hard to top decayed's synergy with this deck, and a lot of the design space in black and white in Crimson Vow is taken up by vampires, which this deck doesn't really support.

Still waiting on the rest of the commander deck spoilers, so I'll update this post if anything catches my eye.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

One last small change before Crimson Vow comes out. Still need to test all the new cards, so may cycle some of the cut cards back in, but I'm generally happy with where the deck is at the moment.

Cuts:
Mentor of the Meek - as mentioned, I've been considering cutting Mentor for a while.... and with the printing of Welcoming Vampire, there is a pretty clear upgrade that will soon be available.
Demonic Tutor - an objectively incorrect cut from a power level perspective, but I feel like adding a little more variance to the deck. Will come back as soon as I free up a slot, but for now, I want the extra slot for testing. (I guess I could keep it in and exclusively fetch new cards, but that's a pretty narrow toolbox)

Adds:
Liliana's Standard Bearer - testing. I suspect it may be a little too cute - this deck doesn't have much to do at instant speed, so it rarely keeps lots of mana open. Still, seems like it could be fun. I debated adding Rise of the Dread Marn as a board wipe recovery spell instead, but I'm a sucker for card draw. Still, may add it if I find I like the effect.
Adeline, Resplendent Cathar - I realized that I initially misread Adeline. She doesn't for each opponent you attack - she triggers for each opponent, period... which means I could just attack with Teysa and sacrifice the three created tokens to exile something immediately. Seems gooooood.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

More interesting stuff in the commander precons than I was expecting, so just making a separate post. The tribal components for spirits and vampires aren't that relevant for this deck, but there are some other options too.
  • Glass-Cast Heart is somewhat interesting as a token producers, particularly because the tokens are both black and white for Teysa. I don't love needing to pay to it, but as token production goes, that's pretty cheap. All the vampire text is almost certainly irrelevant though.
  • Haunted Library is also interesting. It looks similar to Spirit Bonds, which I cut in the past due to the clunky mana tax on every creature. However, if opponents' creatures are dying regularly, it could be much better in practice. I don't hate the idea of passing turn with a bunch of mana open, having an opponent wipe the board, and then dumping all that mana into token production.
  • Priest of the Blessed Graf could be very strong alongside Lotus Field or other ways to manage the land count - if you're consistently getting 2+ lands off it, it will be very strong. I think I have a little too much ramp for it to be consistent though.
  • Storm of Souls looks like a snap-include for this deck. Living Death and Angel of Glory's Rise are two of the strongest cards in this deck, and another mass reanimation effect definitely has a lot of implications. This recurs everything from our graveyard without recurring anything from opponents' graveyards, which is a pretty significant step up in value from the other options (even if they do come back as 1/1s).
  • Sudden Salvation is an interesting take on Second Sunrise and Brought Back, assuming you recur your own stuff... but you can also recur an opponent's stuff to draw cards, which is.... a very interesting slice of color pie for white to get.

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Post by CheffBoyardee » 2 years ago

Just want to say: Nice work, thank you.
I'm french canadian, english is not my mother tongue, please forgive any mistakes.

''Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.''

-Sun Tzu

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Kamigawa spoilers out, so time to review. The set itself doesn't have a ton of overlap with this deck's themes, but still a few interesting cards. I'll note that the BW theme is 'having both an artifact and an enchantment' which is... a thing this deck can technically do, but generally doesn't focus on or do consistently.

White
  • Ao, the Dawn Sky looks very solid - digging seven cards deep for free stuff is quite nice, and the odds of getting multiple things are pretty solid. Getting a bunch of +1/+1 counters is a bit more niche, but can be relevant if you have a bunch of tokens.
  • Farewell looks like an incredibly powerful board wipe. I'm already a huge fan of Merciless Eviction, and this looks even better. It's possible that the format is too fast to be running six mana board wipes... but definitely worth consideration.
  • The Restoration of Eiganjo looks very interesting. The base case is a very slow Farhaven Elf - fetch a Plains, discard it, reanimate it, then get a creature. The flip side is also pretty solid, since it makes tokens on attack. May be too slow in practice, but certainly seems fun.
  • Brilliant Restoration is sweet. This deck doesn't have a ton of artifact / enchantment synergies, but certainly a powerful card.
  • Lion Sash is a white Scavenging Ooze - you lose the lifegain (and get a less efficient body), but it also grows off all permanent cards (not just creatures) and can function as an equipment. It looks very sweet, and seems like a strong part of a Stoneforge Mystic package.
  • Imperial Recovery Unit is somewhat interesting as a recursion engine. 2 or less missed a lot of creatures though.
  • The Fall of Lord Konda is mildly interesting as a removal spell with a delayed cantrip. May be worth consideration if there are a lot of theft effects in your meta.
  • Spirited Companion is a white Elvish Visionary. Outclassed by Dusk Legion Zealot / Callous Bloodmage in this deck though, due to preferring black creatures.
Black
  • Junji, the Midnight Sky looks very interesting. Not quite as combo-friendly as Karmic Guide or Reveillark, but it also has a mini-Mindslicer effect to give it a lot more flexibility in a non-combo situation. The body is also extremely respectable. Difficult to find space for it, but I suspect it will over-perform in practice. Probably more of a Teysa Karlov card though.
  • Tribute to Horobi is somewhat amusing, but the odds of actually getting any rat tokens is approximately zero, given that your opponents can just trade them off / chump attack. That said, could be an amusing way to get death triggers. The flip side is pretty solid, but takes a while to come out.
  • Dockside Chef is an interesting sidegrade to Vampiric Rites. Not a very efficient sac outlet, but being a creature is relevant, as is the ability to fetch it off Ranger-Captain of Eos.
  • Unforgiving One is sweet, but this deck doesn't run the modifications necessary to support it.
  • Gravelighter looks like a nice Fleshbag Marauder variant. 2/2 flyer is certainly a better body than a 3/1, and the flexibility to draw a card can also be useful.
  • Undercity Scrounger is an interesting mana dork - not something this deck usually has access to.
Other
  • Spirit-Sister's Call is an interesting Recurring Nightmare variant - sacrifice creatures (or other permanents) to recur other stuff. The exile clause is a pretty significant downside though, since it shuts down most recursion loops (and death triggers). May still have some potential, since sacrificing tokens is still free value, but...
  • Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire is a land that can double as a removal spell. This deck doesn't have a ton of land-in-graveyard synergies, but Sun Titan does exist, and flexibility is good. This entire cycle is going to see a lot of play.
  • Takenuma, Abandoned Mire - as above, it's a land that doubles as a spell. In this case, a bit of recursion. Seems like a strong inclusion.
Overall, I would say that the two spirit dragons are the most exciting inclusions, and Farewell definitely seems worth testing (in both this deck and others). The Restoration of Eiganjo and Lion Sash are also quite interesting. The legendary lands are also pretty easy inclusions, and will likely end up as format staples.

I'll note that the commander decks are aura/modification and vehicle themed, so I'm not expecting much from them for this deck. (edit) As predicted, not much in the commander decks, but Aerial Surveyor looks fun (and is conveniently crewable by Teysa).

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Not technically a new card, but Wernog, Rider's Chaplain (reskinned Will the Wise) looks quite interesting. The baseline - no opponents investigate, you investigate once - is a bit worse than Thraben Inspector / Dusk Legion Zealot, but it is a bit more synergistic than them due to its color and human typing, respectively. Getting a second trigger when he leaves the battlefield means even more value, and if your opponents let you investigate multiple times, it starts to look even more interesting. This deck doesn't necessarily have a lot of spare mana lying around to crack clues, but certainly worth consideration.

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