Niv-Mizzet, Parun Wheel & Deal

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

This is a budget list I found on The Commander's Quarters. My goal is to upgrade this deck into something more powerful.
Would love any and all suggestions. If you make a suggestion, please explain the why for a card choice so I can have an understanding and learn what else I may look at. "Edit": This is no longer the original budget list as upgrades have started and I am moving into a different deck style.

Niv-Mizzet, Parun

Approximate Total Cost:

Post by **WizardMN** » 3 years ago

First, I think you have far too few mountains. Especially since you don't really have much for duals. If you can afford them, try to get things like Shivan Reef and Sulfur Falls. Temple of Epiphany and Cascade Bluffs are also good. The thing that Niv makes difficult is that even if you are playing a deck with only blue spells, if you want to cast him, you need a reasonable amount of red mana.

Steam Vents is also an obvious inclusion along with any other Red/Blue land you can get that enters untapped as often as possible.

Sol Ring should be here. Even if it doesn't let you cast Niv early, it still lets you do other things ahead of curve.

Wheel of Fortune is a good card here. The Locust God is one of the best token producers for this type of deck. I would play it above basically anything else in the deck. You aren't necessarily a spellslinger deck; you are drawing cards. And getting a token for every draw is way better than one for every spell. Murmuring Mystic is one I found was slow and I just never got on board with Talrand, Sky Summoner (though he can be decent).

If there is a deck that wants Reliquary Tower, it is this one. It sets up a massive Windfall or Fateful Showdown.

Arjun, the Shifting Flame is probably a good card. Sapphire Medallion also does good work for "ramp".

I also don't see much for counter magic. Ionize, Arcane Denial, Mana Drain, Counterspell, etc. are all good to have to protect things.

I am sure there is plenty more but these are the first things that stand out to me. Hopefully it at least gives some ideas, even if they aren't all necessarily the direction you want to take things.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Give us a budget, and we can work from there.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

There isn't any limit. If it's a card over $100, it will just take me a little bit to get it if I don't own it already.

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Reaper_RM wrote: ↑
3 years ago
There isn't any limit. If it's a card over $100, it will just take me a little bit to get it if I don't own it already.

What I'll do is just give you a cEDH list with no budget.
This is just to give you a juxtapose to what a different shell might look like.

Is there something specific about the cEDH deck or the budget list that you like as far as design?

Decklist

Commander (1)

1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun

Creatures (9)

1 Baral, Chief of Compliance

1 Captain Lannery Storm

1 Dockside Extortionist

1 Gilded Drake

1 Glint-Horn Buccaneer

1 Imperial Recruiter

1 Spellskite

1 Tandem Lookout

1 Treasonous Ogre

Sorceries (7)

1 Gitaxian Probe

1 Merchant Scroll

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Pyroclasm

1 Rolling Earthquake

1 Sleight of Hand

Instants (30)

1 Brainstorm

1 Delay

1 Dispel

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Impulse

1 Mana Drain

1 Pongify

1 Pyroblast

1 Red Elemental Blast

1 Snapback

1 Spell Snare

1 Submerge

1 Swan Song

Artifacts (14)

1 Chrome Mox

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mana Vault

1 Mox Diamond

1 Mox Opal

1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Sol Ring

1 Talisman of Creativity

Enchantments (7)

1 Blood Moon

1 Curiosity

Lands (32)

1 Arid Mesa

9 Island

2 Mountain

Approximate Total Cost:

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

As far as the budget list goes, I like the idea of a full on wheel deck with the bonus of infinite combos. Obviously it's needs to be shored up with a better land base, better card options and the like. I used to have a Nekusar combo wheel deck that was built around Paradox Engine, but we all know that got banned. After I saw this deck, I saw an opportunity to do the same here, just unsure where to begin.

So far by looking at the cEDH list you provided I do like Glint-Horn Buccaneer. Gives a way to deal damage for discarding. Protection, ways to effectively tutor and cheap mana sources are definite things I like in this strategy. Relying solely on Niv to win is foolish and definitely need to find additional win cons. I'm kinda floating around the idea of something like Laboratory Maniac possibly.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

Currently I'm looking at the land base. My thought process for this upgrade looks like this:

Highland Lake----->Shivan Reef

Izzet Guildgate----->Sulfur Falls

Swiftwater Cliffs----->Steam Vents

Island----->Reliquary Tower

Island----->Command Tower

Island----->Reflecting Pool

Also want to add Cascade Bluffs, but need to acquire one first.

On the fence about fetchlands. They do fix mana faster and thin out the deck, and there are like 9 I can run in this color setup? Willing to discuss the pros/cons of this as well.

RowanKeltizar · Post by **RowanKeltizar** » 3 years ago

Hey there! I'm actually pretty curious why you abandoned Nekusar, the Mindrazer for Parun? I wouldn't think the banning of Paradox Engine would justify that alone, so what do you like about Parun that Nekusar wasn't offering? Adding black gives you a lot more options. Nekusar certainly seems to fit your strategy better.

Ultimately, I suggest swapping commanders or simply sticking with Nekusar. Why? To my mind, Parun is a non-creature based, efficient, spellslinger, control deck and quite honestly, that doesn't seem to be the deck building direction I am hearing from you. If you want to use more creatures or go for a more dedicated wheel deck, I think there are better options for you. I am a big Commander's Quarters fan, but sometimes Mitch doesn't quite get it right and I think Parun was one of those times.

The Locust God - truly just brokenly powerful, especially with things like Purphoros, God of the Forge. He doesn't care where the draw is coming from, so you can run as many creatures as you like.

Arjun, the Shifting Flame - a Mindmoil in your command zone makes for some interesting prospects, especially if you want to go a full wheel route with things like Guttersnipe, Psychosis Crawler, etc... If you get a draw doubler in play such as Alhammarret's Archive, you can easily deck yourself and win with Laboratory Maniac or Thassa's Oracle.

If you want to stick with Parun:

If you haven't read my primer yet, you might check it out. (link in sig) Lowering your average CMC is a worthy goal especially since this color combo doesn't really have too many budget ramp options.

Generally speaking, if you want to utilize Parun's abilities to the fullest, you need to be casting as many instants and sorceries as possible per turn. You want efficient instant speed effects and you want to draw cards, lots of em. That's why Parun tends to fit in the spellslinger archetype.

Upping your instant and sorcery count is something to aim for, since Parun has no synergy with creatures, artifacts, or enchantments.

IMO, cheap draw spells are what really kick this commander in to high gear. These are cards like Careful Study, Thrill of Possibility, Opt, Thirst for Knowledge, these are absolute powerhouses when combined with Parun's draw trigger, Alhammarret's Archive, Rielle, the Everwise, or the new Teferi's Ageless Insight. Cheap draw spells are great at any point in the game.

Anyway, I'm happy to offer further guidance whichever direction you want to take.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

I did see your primer and it was a very interesting deck indeed!

Ultimately, Nekusar became too expensive $$$ wise to keep up with at the time and it was generally well hated in my playgroups. Parun on the other hand is relatively new and has some options. I will agree, I think Mitch did get it wrong here, but I will not deny the deck has it's merits, especially in a casual playgroup where it can be pretty strong and win out of nowhere.

That being said, I do agree that Parun is probably better suited as a spellslinger deck. However, I do want to explore the option of a wheel style deck with him. Cards like The Locust God and Purphoros, God of the Forge could be a possible alt win con for the deck?

RowanKeltizar · Post by **RowanKeltizar** » 3 years ago

Any commander deck reaches a point where upgrades have diminishing returns and cost exponentially more money. I mean my Parun deck is now worth over $1k with the foils and promos that I own, and a bit under 1k if you don't bling anything. The market right now is pretty inflated. Wheel of Fortune jumped from $100 to 170 in the last few months. I think I bought it originally for $30!

Non-green 2 and 3 color decks tend to be the most expensive because of the landbase, and the cards that make the deck run at peak power level. For Parun, I'm talking about things like Wheel of Fortune, Cyclonic Rift and Mana Crypt. Parun honestly takes quite a bit of support to be powerful and I wouldn't really consider him to be a budget commander in the first place.

I certainly run a fair number of wheels in my deck. Winds of Change and Tolarian Winds are two of my favorites that you aren't running. I like them because they are so efficient. With a draw multiplier in play, they will double your handsize and deal a ton of damage if Niv is out. They also don't give your opponents as much of an advantage as the draw 7s. You will always be benefiting the most from casting them.

You don't need a lot of redundancy to Niv in terms of dealing damage or win cons. One alt win con is sufficient. Anything more than that and you are diluting the power of the deck. I would go with something like Thassa's Oracle. But for me, the funnest and most reliable alternative win-con is the Inner Fire Comet Storm combo. It's also the most on theme because it is instant and sorcery based. It is easily tutorable and recurable in these colors which is important for consistency.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

Update on Changes:This update I am optimizing my land base a bit. Still need to decide if I want to run fetches, and if so, how many.

Out:
Highland Lake
Islandx3
Izzet Boilerworks
Izzet Guildgate
Swiftwater Cliffs

In:
Command Tower
Mana Confluence
Reflecting Pool
Reliquary Tower
Shivan Reef
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls

RowanKeltizar · Post by **RowanKeltizar** » 3 years ago

The only way I would add them is if you already own them and don't already have a home for them in another deck. Fetchlands wouldn't be a priority for me until i figured out what my deck was trying to do. I still haven't added them to my own deck yet. Mainly because of their cost but also the fact that they don't contribute a whole lot toward my gameplan and I feel that my financial resources are better used elsewhere until we get a solid reprint. Sure, they are much better than basic lands and work well with Scroll Rack and Brainstorm but there are better things to spend money on at this point. Here are just a few:

Alhammarret's Archive, Rielle, the Everwise, Consecrated Sphinx - any draw doubler in this deck is going to be a good thing.

Gamble - seriously one of the best tutors you can run

Fabricate, Whir of Invention - artifact tutors are pretty good and one of the few things we are allowed to tutor for in these colors.

Arcane Signet, Talisman of Creativity, Gilded Lotus, Coalition Relic, Chromatic Lantern - RAMP! colored efficient ramp is what we need to get Parun out earlier

Arcane Denial, Counterspell, Narset's Reversal, Force of Negation, Mindbreak Trap, Fierce Guardianship, Swan Song - love em or hate, counterspells are part of what makes this deck powerful IMO, without them you just can't compete against the other color's strengths.

Evacuation, Cyclonic Rift, Blasphemous Act, All is Dust - best board wipes in these colors.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

I think I will wait on the fetches for now. You made a good point about getting the rest of the deck done first.

Looking at the artifact ramp, I am not a big fan of the 3 drops or higher in a 2 color deck. I might consider Chromatic Lantern, just because of the mana fix. While the higher cost rocks may come into play later on in the upgrading, for now I'm sticking with the 0-2 drops.

Right now, I'm working on optimizing my artifact ramp and maybe adding in a couple other spells. Should have an update to that shortly. Piece by piece something will come together. Your suggestions are along my line of thinking and I have most of them, just gotta figure out where they fit.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

Update on changes: This update primarily is focused on optimizing my mana rocks. There are a couple changes to creatures, enchantments and land this go around too.

Out:
Astral Cornucopia
Corrupted Grafstone
Izzet Cluestone
Izzet Keyrune
Vessel of Endless Rest
Island
The Mirari Conjecture
Murmuring Mystic
Talrand, Sky Summoner

In:
Arcane Signet
Chromatic Lantern
Mind Stone
Sol Ring
Thought Vessel
Fiery Islet
Rhystic Study
Baral, Chief of Compliance
Laboratory Maniac

Considerations: Wanting to know thoughts on these cards if they would be a good addition or not.
Gilded Lotus
Nyx Lotus
Ruby Medallion
Sapphire Medallion
Teferi's Puzzle Box

RowanKeltizar · Post by **RowanKeltizar** » 3 years ago

Changes look good!

Gilded Lotus- Out these cards, this is the first I would give a try. I've had it in my build since the beginning and have stuck with it. If you can afford something like a Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, or Mana Crypt, then by all means use those cards. But if you can't, then Gilded Lotus does what it needs to by giving you colored mana. If you cast this on turn 5, by turn 6 you will have access to 9 mana, which means you can cast Niv with mana open for protection. It's nicely on curve. Something to keep in mind is that Lotus comes into play untapped which means that you are effectively refunded 3 mana to use for whatever you want that turn, or leave it open for a counter or a draw spell.

Nyx Lotus - I run this is some decks. If you are really dedicated to going more creature and permanent heavy then it's pretty good. It's better in an artifact deck that can untap it or if you can use Turnabout or something to unlock it the turn you play it. If you can get several smaller permanents out and have it tap for least 2 or 3 colored mana I think it will perform well.

Ruby Medallion, Sapphire Medallion - I honestly don't like these cards too much outside of mono-colored. I would go with Dockside Extortionist if you can manage to pick one up.

Teferi's Puzzle Box - I don't really like the forced wheel effects outside of a super dedicated wheel deck. The reason being that losing key cards or counterspells/removal when you need it most has been a serious problem for me with these cards. I think if you add the draw multiplier cards, then it could be better, especially if you plan to win with Thassa's Oracle or Laboratory Maniac.

Reaper_RM · Post by **Reaper_RM** » 3 years ago

So I ordered some cards and they'll be here within the next 4-7 days. Gilded Lotus and Talisman of Creativity will be added when they get here and I already know what they will replace. Also managed to order a The Locust God.

I now want to look at my creature base and figure out what to get rid of. There are 3 creatures I'm wanting to add in.

Consecrated Sphinx
Purphoros, God of the Forge
The Locust God

RowanKeltizar · Post by **RowanKeltizar** » 3 years ago

Ultimately, you can build the deck however you want, but I would like to reiterate what I said earlier.

I still think you should swap commanders if you want to run these types of cards. All three of those are are pretty powerful but purphoros definitely has no synergy with Parun. Distinctly different strategies.

I think it is possible to go a dedicated wheel route with Parun, although maybe a little less than ideal, but that is STILL an instant and sorcery based build. Not a creature based build. When you've piloted Parun as much as I have, you will notice the difference between a focused build and a distracted build.

If I were you I would go with the The Locust God as your commander. Or Arjun, the Shifting Flame. I 100% guarantee your deck will be more powerful and synergistic with the strategy you are going for.

You'll be happier, win more games, and minimize frustration, I promise you! XD

Here's a summary:

Parun - instant and sorcery based. Could go spellslinger or wheels, but minimal creatures. I'm talking like 2-3 creatures tops! Parun also lends himself very well to the control archetype. Lots of counterspells will help protect Parun and keep you from losing as you'll have no creatures of your own to block with. However, board wipes are one sided so take advantage of that!

Arjun - a guaranteed wheel effect in your command zone. You will actually need to run less actual wheel spells in your deck, but instead capitalize on his ability. There are MANY ways to do this: anything from Ominous Seas to Talrand, Sky Summoner With a draw doubler like Teferi's Ageless Insight you can draw your deck and win with Thassa's Oracle or Lab Maniac. Arjun doesn't care what types of spells you are casting so you can run as many creatures as you like, but I wouldn't characterize it as being creature centric. You could go either way or make a hybrid build.

The Locust God - definitely creature based. you'll want creature based draw effects whenever possible and efficient. you get to run cards like Reconnaissance Mission or Keep Watch. Skullclamp is great here! You can also run fun cards like Battle Hymn. Cards like Wheel of Fortune can certainly be used as your commander doesn't care where the draw comes from, but generally speaking you are going to be winning with combat damage.

All three of these are very powerful but sort of demand a focused build to reach their full potential, IMO. Izzet is an underdog color combination.

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