Big Timmy Style: Xenagos, Double Stuffed Ohnoeos

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Deckbox link in case I forget an update, which I will:
https://deckbox.org/sets/3373517?s=c&o=a
Decklist

Commander (1)

Artifacts (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

So this is a budgety approach to Xenagos, big stompy with cards I mostly had laying around.

Two design paradigms I'm trying to follow:
1) Most ramp spells should not care about board wipes, or depend on Xenagos too much
2) Most card advantage spells should be good topdecks and not require having a fat creature on the field

With that in mind I have really bland CA and Ramp suites of:
1) resilient sorcery ramp
2) instant/sorcery card draw

This is by design, and I'd actually like to go a little further. I will say Traverse the Outlands is my one real exception to this, because it is an endgame ramp soell, but it might get cut.

My play experience suggests a few changes already on my list I'll approach in the next post!
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Current Quandaries:
* Dreadhorde Arcanist is awesome, but without a way to get to 3 power he doesn't do the most important thing, recycle ramp spells. So he's getting cut for probably Vorinclex // The Grand Evolution
* Crater Hellion has been hit or miss. Sweeping all my other creatures seems to happen a lot with the damage doublers. But he kills Peacekeeper and similar stax creatures, so pretty useful?
* Apex Altisaur has been weirdly whatever. Doesn't synergize and mostly just meh. I guess being a 20/20 does force them to block and then generate more triggers? That's what I was originally thinking.

Probably also need to add a Invasion of Ikoria // Zilortha, Apex of Ikoria at some point. they too stupid pricey :P


---


I would really like some thoughts from people on ways to improve / make more resilient the draw and ramp suites. Harmonize has been fantastic for example. I know it's dumb, but it makes the deck really easy to play and sequence and recover from the inevitable board wipe. Escape to the Wilds was a sick add from @plushpenguin's list -- draw it off the top, go right off!

The exception is that single standalone creatures I missed that draw a gajillion cards with Xenagos would be awesome. Dragon Mage seemed not unreasonable but the only one I could think of. Bedlam Reveler kinda does this.

We are aiming to seriously avoid magical christmasland thinking.

Reminder that I want to stay away from ramp and draw that requires me to hit -- that means, drop a big ol fattie and go off. if I'm doing that I probably don't need a ton more cards, so Rishkar's Expertise is prone to being winmore. What I need is ways to *find* big fat creatures.

Maybe I should add Tooth and Nail or similar stuff?

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Post by Chromaticus » 10 months ago

I don't know about this deck @pokken - it's not Esper…

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Post by BaronCappuccino » 10 months ago

I'm a big fan of green's search for lands and put them into play style of ramp - the unwashed masses have made lands the only sort of ramp it's not okay to touch, so run it to the exclusion of everything else and watch those other suckers devote deck slots to protecting their ramp while you wield community consensus like Captain America's shield and save said slots for fun cards. You're in the best colors to destroy their rocks and dorks whilst simultaneously finger wagging at their Armageddons. You want casual, that's how you do it.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

BaronCappuccino wrote:
10 months ago
I'm a big fan of green's search for lands and put them into play style of ramp - the unwashed masses have made lands the only sort of ramp it's not okay to touch, so run it to the exclusion of everything else and watch those other suckers devote deck slots to protecting their ramp while you wield community consensus like Captain America's shield and save said slots for fun cards. You're in the best colors to destroy their rocks and dorks whilst simultaneously finger wagging at their Armageddons. You want casual, that's how you do it.
Yeah that's pretty much the thing I'm preying on here. Everyone kills mana dorks these days because the game seems to be shifting toward sweepers again. Weirdly I have been seeing lots of Anger of the Gods type effects. This deck just slams those resilient sorceries then topdecks huge fatties. No board commitment except beaters really, minimal support permanennts.

Anyone have any input on a third sweeper? I feel like Chain Reaction and Blasphemous Act and Crater Hellion are not quite enough. I feel like I'm seeing one every couple games instead of one every game.

Honestly I'd like to run more like 5-6 sweepers but Red/Green just for efficient sweepers.

Is there a good creature blast-everybody I forgot that I could replace Apex Altisaur with?

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Post by BaronCappuccino » 10 months ago

My favorite three jujitsu-esque sweepers are Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction and Incite Rebellion.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 10 months ago

Chandra's Ignition feels like a good fit here, rip it main two for increased cleanup potential. I don't remember if the primer runs it or not, but it should hopefully be good enough for now?

Nice to see you explore timmytastic fat. I don't think I'm shifting away from Saryth myself, maybe she'd be worth a slot in the 99 here? I'm positively surprised how good she is in my Ghired, but that deck really appreciates the hexproof for copying in peace as well.
 
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
10 months ago
Chandra's Ignition feels like a good fit here, rip it main two for increased cleanup potential. I don't remember if the primer runs it or not, but it should hopefully be good enough for now?

Nice to see you explore timmytastic fat. I don't think I'm shifting away from Saryth myself, maybe she'd be worth a slot in the 99 here? I'm positively surprised how good she is in my Ghired, but that deck really appreciates the hexproof for copying in peace as well.
Chandra's Ignition suffers from not being good on its own. I'm trying really hard to avoid cards that require Christmas spirit -- that is, they are only good when I'm triggering Xenagos on a fatty. I don't know that I have hardly any of those effects. They are great and powerful but also super swingy.

This deck feels mostly worse than Ghired, Conclave Exile tbh. I always look at that deck as a reference for how to pressure control decks with minimal cards :P

Saryth, the Viper's Fang is cool as heck, but I don't have any really useful land or creature untaps and it isn't that useful as a haste target. I'll noodle on it some more but my first thought is that most of my dudes are not getting blocked anyway, or if they are the difference between 24 to the dome and 19 is not worth a dude who isn't a wincondition?

Generally there are like zero creatures so far that won't take over the game by themselves with Xenagos, with the exceptions:
Dualcaster Mage is a spell
Oakhame Adversary is a spell (sylvan library on a bro) and maybe doesn't belong:P just kind of a pet card.
Bedlam Reveler is a spell, again, I would love to replace this with a dude who said "when deals combat damage draw bajillion cards but no one else does, :shakesfist: Dragon Mage)

The goal is basically:
1. ramp
2. cast xenagos
3. cast fattie that dominates the game by itself
4. profit.

I'm trying to maximize resilience and minimize synergy beyond synergizing with Xenagos. So every card needs to mostly stand on its own.

What I probably need is like, 3 more copies of harmonize and 6 more copies of old gnawbone

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 10 months ago

Oh look, it's right here. Sorry @pokken, I'll open my eyes next time before I ask stupid questions.
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Knollspine Dragon requires some setup, with "some" being: "hit someone, then have 7 mana to spend"
Garruk's Uprising is almost an auto-include in green decks running a fair number of 4+ power creatures. Giving your big boys trample is also going to be very relevant.
It's not ramp or draw, but Nature's Will is an infinite combo with Aggravated Assault, provides the equivalent of a Seedborn Muse effect, but on your turn (can be abused if you have any flash or activated abilities to use between triggers from hitting multiple opponents), and locks down resources for big post-combat plays (if any).
Jeska's Will is going to be decent as both psuedo-ramp and psuedo-draw, and with how difficult it is to remove your commander, you should basically always be getting both modes, unless you're just using it as a ritual early.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma ramps out almost every creature in the deck, adds trample and a further buff on attacks.
Ohran Frostfang turns all of your creatures into Oakhame Adversary.

Cathartic Reunion doesn't look great when you don't have chaff creatures to pitch later, and generally want to be making land drops always to power out your top end.

Depending on how often you have 3+ creatures out, extra combats are probably better than damage doublers/triplers here. You already have a few creatures that do that. I don't that running 3 damage enhancers fits with your goals of having cards stand on their own. For example, one of those doublers could be Angrath's Marauders or Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus.
Cultivator Colossus is high on the curve (so a little late for ramp), but seems like a good fit here.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

yeti1069 wrote:
10 months ago
Knollspine Dragon requires some setup, with "some" being: "hit someone, then have 7 mana to spend"
Garruk's Uprising is almost an auto-include in green decks running a fair number of 4+ power creatures. Giving your big boys trample is also going to be very relevant.
It's not ramp or draw, but Nature's Will is an infinite combo with Aggravated Assault, provides the equivalent of a Seedborn Muse effect, but on your turn (can be abused if you have any flash or activated abilities to use between triggers from hitting multiple opponents), and locks down resources for big post-combat plays (if any).
Jeska's Will is going to be decent as both psuedo-ramp and psuedo-draw, and with how difficult it is to remove your commander, you should basically always be getting both modes, unless you're just using it as a ritual early.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma ramps out almost every creature in the deck, adds trample and a further buff on attacks.
Ohran Frostfang turns all of your creatures into Oakhame Adversary.

Cathartic Reunion doesn't look great when you don't have chaff creatures to pitch later, and generally want to be making land drops always to power out your top end.

Depending on how often you have 3+ creatures out, extra combats are probably better than damage doublers/triplers here. You already have a few creatures that do that. I don't that running 3 damage enhancers fits with your goals of having cards stand on their own. For example, one of those doublers could be Angrath's Marauders or Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus.
Cultivator Colossus is high on the curve (so a little late for ramp), but seems like a good fit here.
Garruk's Uprising - so the probelm with cards like that is the most likely *ceiling* is worse than Harmonize and the floor is Circle of Protection: Shadow. Most of my creatures have evasion already and like 50% have trample.

Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma seems reasonable since he attacks for 9 trampling on his own and also ramps; might try that.

Jeska's Will - seems really good, I was concerned about the fact that I don't really have that many red cards I want to power out before Xenagos, so on curve it doesn't really work well--it's a virtual 4 drop, since I'd need a green for it to power out most things. But maybe it's just good enough to try. The thing I don't like about it as compared to something like Harmonize is that I don't get to keep the cards forever and if they aren't read I can't cast them now. But...it is a very solid topdeck. I'll see if I have a spare one I can jam to try out.

Cathartic Reunion -- you would be really amazed how often this and Faithless Looting are just absolute gold. This deck really needs glue that helps it hit land drops that is also good at finding wincons in the end game. That said, it is very possible that reunion would be better as something that is card positive, I am just not exactly sure what it is. We *really* want some 2 and 3 cmc draw spells that see enough cards to hit land drops or fix, because there are only so many copies of Cultivate we can run.

The kinda awkward part about my deck design here is that, because I am not playing very many enabling creatures, the deck doesn't really work with stuff like Oath of Nissa -- I have a ton of instants and sorceries and enchantments that I want really badly, and the red dig cards get to them.


Ohran Frostfang is one I thought about, but here's the issue with it: it costs 5 mana, and the floor is dies immediately to removal. As a post-sweeper topdeck, it domes someone for 8 and draws a card, which is..fine, but significantly worse than something like Vorinclex // The Grand Evolution. The typical number of creatures I have on the board when everyone is dead is like...3. So anything that depends on other creatures on the board is really suspect.

The mantra of card draw in this build is:

Give me cards in my pre-combat mainphase so I can obliterate someone with them (or to a lesser extent on combat damage so next turn everyone dies, or i hit an extra combat step effect).

re: extra combats
I 100% agree the damage doublers are probably worse than extra combats; I will likely add any extra combats I can get on permanents. The nicest part about City on Fire is you can hit it off Genesis Wave but you can't hit Seize the Day. I think the Godo, Bandit Warlord package with Embercleave is one of the best I didn't add...that's nuts.

The only spell based extra combat I kept is Savage Beating because the power is so high in one card -- Savage Beating with a single 6/6 winds up doing something like 72 damage ( (6+6) * 2 + (12+12)*2), or 24+48 I wanna say :P so usally killing two people.

Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus seems potentially pretty good. A problem it suffers from is not having evasion on its own though. Need to noodle on that.

Angrath's Marauders is *strong* but double is a lot less than triple. Maybe replaces Gratuitous Violence? But GV costs 5, so worth considering the difference. will think bout that.

Cultivator Colossus is one worth thinking on; it rates to be a 10/10 trampler or so, which is a lot of pressure, and it *could* draw a bunch of cards. The problem with it is it's a horrible topdeck, and mostly only good when I have a few lands in hand to draw cards off of. And nothing in the deck puts lands in hand at a reasonable rate. Where is my red old gnawbone that exiles X cards from your deck or something and lets you play them til next turn :P

----

Very much appreciate the thoughts. If you have good ideas on cheap draw effects early in the game or fatties that draw tons of cards, I'm all ears, those are the two biggest gaps I think.

The damage *triplers* are something really worth thinking on in any build I think; exponents are nuts. A 6/6 with City on Fire hits for 36. That's bananas.


-------

I just want to reiterate the fundamental philosophy of this deck because it's starting to become more coherent to me:
Ramp hard, cast Xenagos, apply pressure, topdeck extremely well and almost always apply renewed pressure in response to removal
The ramp package is probably the weakest link in the topdeck olympics, and some of the lands could maybe be better topdecks?

I feel like this deck doesn't have the slots for an Exploration based ramp package, though, so the slot parsimony of stuff like Escape to the Wilds and Cultivate that generate both card advantage and ramp are very nice (even Explore which generates velocity if not card advantage).

It might be nice to explore (haha) ways to generate velocity/card advantage and ramp on the same cards.
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

In regards to Garruk's Uprising: if the game is ending before you've seen more than 1 or 2 creatures (ceiling worse than Harmonize), then you either didn't need anything better (you won), or it's doubtful that drawing another card would have made the difference. The floor being useless, admittedly means some raw card draw would have been better, but that should be pretty rare. I'll note that while many of your creatures have some form of evasion, most of them don't have trample, and a fair number of THOSE have on-damage effects you want to trigger that can be stopped by a 1/1 flying chump blocker. You also have a few big fatties with 0 evasion. Garruk's is also a decent top deck, since it draws on ETB if you have a creature. The card is an over-performer in my Ur-Dragon deck, which bears some similarities here (wants to ramp into big, evasive, non-trampling creatures, needs card draw).

Also, looking back at the list, Doubling Cube seems like hot garbage here. It does nothing until you have 7 mana in your pool, and then is only netting +1 mana. It's basically reserved for huge X spells, which you aren't running, or turns where you're dumping your hand, but without a ton of card draw, you're not going to see that often. It's a card that does literally nothing most of the time, and really only shines if you ALSO have out a mana doubler/tripler, and then...doubling that seems like a poor waste of a card slot. Three Visits or Farseek both seem much better for that slot. Also, if you're going big mana with the idea of dumping your hand, free incidental draw (Garruk's) helps keep the gravy train rolling more than 1 or 2 draws spells in the deck (if you had a high density that would be different). Think about storm decks: the way they fuel big turns is with cheap cantrips. In this case, you're not playing cheap, but turning the spells you ARE playing into cantrips is more likely to snowball.

On Cathartic, I personally prefer the 'discard 1, draw 2' cards. It's easier to find 1 to pitch than 2, and if you're low on cards, it's more likely you're at 1+Thrill of Possibility than 2+Cathartic. Both are card neutral, but I've had games with Cathartic where it wasn't castable, because I didn't have 2 other cards (have had the same with a topdecked Thrill, but that's less likely).

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

yeti1069 wrote:
10 months ago
In regards to Garruk's Uprising: if the game is ending before you've seen more than 1 or 2 creatures (ceiling worse than Harmonize), then you either didn't need anything better (you won), or it's doubtful that drawing another card would have made the difference. The floor being useless, admittedly means some raw card draw would have been better, but that should be pretty rare. I'll note that while many of your creatures have some form of evasion, most of them don't have trample, and a fair number of THOSE have on-damage effects you want to trigger that can be stopped by a 1/1 flying chump blocker. You also have a few big fatties with 0 evasion. Garruk's is also a decent top deck, since it draws on ETB if you have a creature. The card is an over-performer in my Ur-Dragon deck, which bears some similarities here (wants to ramp into big, evasive, non-trampling creatures, needs card draw).

Also, looking back at the list, Doubling Cube seems like hot garbage here. It does nothing until you have 7 mana in your pool, and then is only netting +1 mana. It's basically reserved for huge X spells, which you aren't running, or turns where you're dumping your hand, but without a ton of card draw, you're not going to see that often. It's a card that does literally nothing most of the time, and really only shines if you ALSO have out a mana doubler/tripler, and then...doubling that seems like a poor waste of a card slot. Three Visits or Farseek both seem much better for that slot. Also, if you're going big mana with the idea of dumping your hand, free incidental draw (Garruk's) helps keep the gravy train rolling more than 1 or 2 draws spells in the deck (if you had a high density that would be different). Think about storm decks: the way they fuel big turns is with cheap cantrips. In this case, you're not playing cheap, but turning the spells you ARE playing into cantrips is more likely to snowball.

On Cathartic, I personally prefer the 'discard 1, draw 2' cards. It's easier to find 1 to pitch than 2, and if you're low on cards, it's more likely you're at 1+Thrill of Possibility than 2+Cathartic. Both are card neutral, but I've had games with Cathartic where it wasn't castable, because I didn't have 2 other cards (have had the same with a topdecked Thrill, but that's less likely).
I'll definitely grab an uprising; I would really rather the card draw be *now* or on a creature though. Trampling seems...fine? It's super rare to me that I can't get through with a flyer or a trampler, but of my dudes---
Garg, Vorinclex, Bloodthirster, Behemoth, Etali, Vorinclex, nyxbloom == trample
altisaur, Inferno titan, Drakuseth = burn out blockers and/or fly
drak, copper, balefire, scourge, klauth, gnawbone fly

Of the creatures I really need to connect with, really only Neheb, the Eternal Balefire Dragon and Ancient Copper Dragon (and to an extent Old Gnawbone) get stuffed by blockers in a meanigful way. So adding trample really helps like...maybe 4 or 5 creatures?

Fundamentally, adding trample *if it's not on a creature that also does something else* is a nearly dead ability. Casting it to draw a single card after a fattie feels just okay? Drawing 2-3 cards after casting other fatties feels also, medium-bad.

A major differentiator between The Ur-Dragon is that it ramps (by letting you drop stuff for free and cast stuff cheaper). So it's massively more likely to go off with chains of creatures. And it doesn't pump or give haste, so you're more incentivized to drop your hand and wait for next turn.

Xenagos' play patterns really reward you to hold fatties in hand to rebuild with, vs. committing more to the board, because he doesn't ramp and gives haste.

The more I think about it the less likely I am to want to play that card; Dragonborn Champion feels like a really neat one that plushpenguin's deck plays, cheap and tramply card draw on a dude.

Doubling Cube is hot garbage lol. My thinking with it was that it was a cute doubling effect that could go absolutely off sometimes (see Genesis Wave / Commune with Lava as giant X spells I have), but it's...probably just worse than adding another 4 cmc ramp spell, a lot of the time. That said, it's a very high ceiling card. Very likely Three Visits is a solid swap there. I have Nature's Lore already. Maybe I just ran out :P

edit: Think I am gonna try replacing Doubling Cube with Invasion of Zendikar // Awakened Skyclave -- that seems really solid. +3 lands for 1 card and lets me potentially take a turn off of bashing face if I want.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Yeah. Dragonborn is a solid card.

Invasion of Zendikar seems like an almost strict upgrade over most of the 4 mana land tutors.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Card idea watchlist:

Early Draw stuff Creatures more mid-cost beef

Kura, the Boundless Sky
Atsushi, the Blazing Sky

These cards are just fantastic. Card draw or ramp on death, decent sized bodies for Xenagos. Gonna have to pick some up. Don't know why I always forget them.
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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

I'll just note that impulse drawing more than a few cards means you're probably losing a few of the cards due to the high cost of your creatures. Soulfire is fun to resolve, but even in Prosper it felt like a trap. Probably less so when you don't have much impulse in the list so you aren't going to exile it at an inopportune time.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

yeti1069 wrote:
10 months ago
I'll just note that impulse drawing more than a few cards means you're probably losing a few of the cards due to the high cost of your creatures. Soulfire is fun to resolve, but even in Prosper it felt like a trap. Probably less so when you don't have much impulse in the list so you aren't going to exile it at an inopportune time.
Yeah, this deck tends to make absolutely comical amounts of mana when it goes off though; Klauth and gnawbone and ancient copper dragon and nyxbloom and mana reflection and Traverse the Outlands and so on.

I'd say that the stuff that says "until next turn" and has a low-medium cost is going to rate to be the best.

What I tend to do when I say, Ignite the Future, is prioritize making mana off the first spell and then use that for the rest.

Soulfire Eruption is one where, if there are enough targets, you're extremely likely to hit a mana bomb off one and be able to go off the rest? But who knows :) It's also pretty powerful for the domes because the cmc's are high and there're damage doublers. But it's probably magical christmas land for the most part :P

The Xenagos package of giving giant fatties haste really plays differently than almost any other beater deck, in my experience.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

Cool. Hard to see it from just looking at the deck, but there are certainly some big mana shenanigans there.

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Post by gsgfdf » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Card idea watchlist:

Early Draw stuff
Just wanted to add that we got a second copy of Reckless Impulse in Wrenn's Resolve

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Post by kraus911 » 10 months ago

An out of the box suggestion for Valakut Exploration. This card does work even without fetchlands, though cracking your Wooded Foothills at the end of soemone's turn and having your card available then is pretty sweet. I think of it as a red Phyrexian Arena. Yes you have to play the card this turn, and maybe you're sad to see the card you wanted later end up in the bin, but meh, I think it's pure value town. And even if they go to the bin you do some trash damage and get the card back with E Wit. You're playing Timmy so throw in Ancient Greenwarden and maybe even a Conduit of Worlds because that card is just good when you have a juicy fatty in your yard, or just profit off one land a turn.

I'd drop Defense of the Heart for it, unless you're hoping for Defense to help keep other people off creatures as opposed to fetching you your fatties.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

kraus911 wrote:
10 months ago
An out of the box suggestion for Valakut Exploration. This card does work even without fetchlands, though cracking your Wooded Foothills at the end of soemone's turn and having your card available then is pretty sweet. I think of it as a red Phyrexian Arena. Yes you have to play the card this turn, and maybe you're sad to see the card you wanted later end up in the bin, but meh, I think it's pure value town. And even if they go to the bin you do some trash damage and get the card back with E Wit. You're playing Timmy so throw in Ancient Greenwarden and maybe even a Conduit of Worlds because that card is just good when you have a juicy fatty in your yard, or just profit off one land a turn.

I'd drop Defense of the Heart for it, unless you're hoping for Defense to help keep other people off creatures as opposed to fetching you your fatties.
It suffers from "not good nowitis" but it's pretty strong. esp. with all the land ramp spells. Maybe worth a thought if I can't think of anything better for card draw.

Defense of the Heart is basically "if you have 3 creatures, I win next turn" (since really any two creatures is gonna be bananas and probably win). It might wind up getting cut because it forces removal more than anything, but man it is strong.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Another day, another sneak attack nyxbloom ancient and regal behemoth in then genesis wave for 22 and kill the entire table with 8 extra attack steps from Moraug, Fury of Akoum

Killed the entire table with just the evil eye thing that someone gave me that made my non-eye creatures not able to attack. well, how do you like it when it's 800/800? :P

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Post by Moonlighter » 10 months ago

Xenagos leads to some fun lines of play. Just that feeling of "every turn from about 3 on I'm going to threaten to kill at least one player" is pretty cool. And the haste means that sweepers aren't as effective. That said, two from @plushpenguin's masterful list that I've never regretted are Quartzwood Crasher and Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes. Both cards provide immediate return early or late for me. Quartz is an unbelievable threat in its own and I've won games with him even when I was locked out of Xenagos himself.
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Moonlighter wrote:
10 months ago
Xenagos leads to some fun lines of play. Just that feeling of "every turn from about 3 on I'm going to threaten to kill at least one player" is pretty cool. And the haste means that sweepers aren't as effective. That said, two from @plushpenguin's masterful list that I've never regretted are Quartzwood Crasher and Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes. Both cards provide immediate return early or late for me. Quartz is an unbelievable threat in its own and I've won games with him even when I was locked out of Xenagos himself.
I've been trying to grok qwc but it feels just kinda weird in a vacuum. Maybe it's better than I'm thinking with extra combat steps? That's a lot of damage with one (something like 48 trampling). It seems
Solid just not quite what I'm wanting. That said the mana cost is so cheap I do dig that.

I'll pick one up and see if I can slot it in. Likely better than some of my random mid grade dudes.

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Post by Moonlighter » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Moonlighter wrote:
10 months ago
I said some stuff
I've been trying to grok qwc but it feels just kinda weird in a vacuum. Maybe it's better than I'm thinking with extra combat steps? That's a lot of damage with one (something like 48 trampling). It seems
Solid just not quite what I'm wanting. That said the mana cost is so cheap I do dig that.

I'll pick one up and see if I can slot it in. Likely better than some of my random mid grade dudes.
For me, I run a good deal of protection, so my likelihood of keeping my 12/12 or 24/24 trampler or what have you is pretty good. Also, like M&B, I have a few options around sac based draw. For you, it's the multiple combats and damage doublers and triplers are likely to make this guy worthwhile. It gives good blockers and is a self-increasing threat and is a 6/6 for 5. Not certain if he'll run so well for you, but he's done work for me.
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

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